Babel: An Arcane History by R.F. Kuang

Babel: An Arcane History by R.F. Kuang - Printable Version

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RE: Babel: An Arcane History by R.F. Kuang - Elisabeth Champagne - August 30, 2023

(August 25, 2023 – 1:39 PM)Benevolence Crouch Wrote: I'm just done.

Book 3 ENDING SPOILER DO NOT OPEN IF NOT FINISHED

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So the ending! I cried like a crazy person on the train - knew it was coming, thought it was the only way out for Robin at least

Again its a testament to the quality and depth of Kuang's research into colonial uprisings but the response rang true. I doubt the things referenced are exclusive to Ireland - but they tallied beat for beat. I recently read a book about the 1916 Rising in Ireland that had so many parrel 'moments' to book 3 - from the rationale, the reaction, the general feeling, and the inevitability of the ending mirrors that found in letters from the leaders of the rising - there is a line the Irish leader Pearse's letter to his mother 'You must not grieve for all this. We have preserved Ireland’s honour and our own' -that was an echo or something Robin said near the end.

Kuanh is to be commended for, in a way, honoring those who have in real life fought and died resisting colonial oppression and the effort she has gone to to be true to the real lived experience is actually wonderful.

What I would LOVE now is another book about Victoire because I want more of her story but it's also artistically satisfying knowing that Victoire's future is unknown.

I think it's better that it ends where it does but I also very much want more! It would be a brilliant plot for here, but I don't know how it would work.

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RE: Babel: An Arcane History by R.F. Kuang - Aldous Crouch - August 30, 2023

Wait, are there editions of the novel with only 3 books in them? Because mine was def split into five...

AND SPEAKING OF, I am back with notes/thoughts for the last two sections!

BOOK 4

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BOOK 5

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Speaking of Letty, this really stuck out (p. 502). I think it says a lot about Victoire's character and/or circumstances that she was willing to keep putting energy into this relationship:

'It was like an exercise in hope,' [Victoire] said after a pause. 'Loving her, I mean. Sometimes I'd think she'd come around. Sometimes I'd look her in the eyes and think that I was looking at a true friend. Then she'd say something, make some off-the-cuff comment, and the whole cycle would begin all over again. It was like pouring sand into a sieve. Nothing stuck.'

I really enjoyed that chapter 30 was just a newspaper article—it was nice to get an outside perspective on the events of the story, not just filtered through Robin's lens. I will say, though, that making it a footnote really bugged me stylistically as there was soo much empty space on the page.

I'm going to be honest, I stopped liking Robin by the end of the book. It became really clear how desperately he just needed to play martyr, which had only been hinted at before, and I'm with Chakravarti: I am not here for willful destruction, even by doing nothing, of innocent life. That bridge was, pun intended to lighten the mood, a bridge too far.

(August 30, 2023 – 2:47 PM)Elisabeth Champagne Wrote: First, I'm probably the only person who HATES open ended endings so it honestly frustrated me that we never get to see what exactly happens with Victoire, but that’s my own thing. However, I definitely would love maybe a short story where we can follow her a bit? Maybe one of those mini novellas that are companion books to the main story? Idk if it work though. As much as I want to Know ™, sometimes when the author tries to add on more to a finished story it ends up terrible.

I actually really like that it's open-ended—with the fall of the tower, the whole world is full of possibility now, and I feel that writing a solid ending for Victoire limits that in some way. Then again, this is coming from someone who now struggles with series (which I loved as a kid) as I lose momentum between entries but still can't read them back to back??? so I think it would bug me if we had something added on later.

UNLESS THAT ADDITION WAS WHATEVER WAS IN GRIFFIN'S LETTERS. Robin's lack of curiosity was a greater sin than his martyr complex. >.>

RE: Babel: An Arcane History by R.F. Kuang - Sisse Thompsett - August 30, 2023

Mine is also in 5 Kayte.

And I hate to say this but shit has hit the fan/things have started really moving along.... and I'm STILL dragging myself through the book.

RE: Babel: An Arcane History by R.F. Kuang - Elias Grimstone - August 30, 2023

A couple extra tidbits, now more people have finished it...

This is the second topmost goodreads review – warning, they rated it a 2 stars, which I don't agree with – but which discusses a) the worldbuilding and b) the language problem* that expresses my thoughts well enough that I cba to try and put it in my own words.

*starting from roughly "that same creative ethic (or lack thereof)" in the review, about the very modern style of vocab in a book about the importance of words.

Secondly I found a v old interview with the author, pre-Babel (around The Poppy War time) and this is her worldbuilding style in a nutshell, from her:

Quote:None, actually! I treat worldbuilding and lore very instrumentally–I never come up with more than what I strictly need for the story. I’m the complete opposite of writers who create elaborate project “Bibles.” That doesn’t work for me; I get really bored with any aspect of worldbuilding if it’s not serving to move the story along. I’m an ideas writer first–I come up with whatever historical, political, or philosophical theme I want to drive home–and then I come up with plot points to illustrate that theme. Characters come second, and the nitty gritty of the world comes third. So the Trifecta only popped into my imagination when I needed them, and the Chimei might never have appeared on page if I hadn’t needed some monster to drive Rin and Nezha closer together. There are no “untold stories” of Nikan lurking out there in a Scrivener file.

I don't know if it's my favourite type of fiction, her "ideas writer" thing re: getting a message across is probably why I find Babel ~preachy, but to each their own!

(On a personal note I just really want to know if she was in the Les Mis fandom back in the day because I know this about revolution in general, but the V Hugo quote she picked is straight from the Les Amis chapter and it gives me VIBES.)

Also when anyone writes in 3rd person present I assume they got their start in fanfiction for some reason, idk if that's just me or that's where the trend in published literature really came from xD

Also, for Kayte and/or anyone else who has read Yellowface: would you recommend? I know it's v diff in genre, but which did you prefer, Babel or that? (Would I like it? xD)

RE: Babel: An Arcane History by R.F. Kuang - Iphigenia Adebayo - August 30, 2023

(August 30, 2023 – 6:08 PM)Sisse Thompsett Wrote: And I hate to say this but shit has hit the fan/things have started really moving along.... and I'm STILL dragging myself through the book.

This was never going to be a for-everyone book. I think I enjoyed Book 4 the most. Pacing woes are a real trial.

(August 30, 2023 – 7:16 PM)Elias Grimstone Wrote: This is the second topmost goodreads review – warning, they rated it a 2 stars, which I don't agree with – but which discusses a) the worldbuilding and b) the language problem* that expresses my thoughts well enough that I cba to try and put it in my own words.

it is no small feat to make a book that's at least 30% lectures about etymology into digestible commercial fiction

LOL. They are... not wrong? I'm a language nerd but not quite to this extent—I enjoyed the notes about 80% of the time, though! Definitely passing this book along to the mother who is a self-proclaimed language nerd though!

this would have been perfectly functional historical fiction but if you consider it a fantasy it is a failure - while its factual reproduction of imperial british history is, fine, it has essentially neglected to build a new world for itself in any meaningful way.

This is ultimately a big issue I had with it as well, and why I only gave it four stars myself. It was well-researched, generally well-written, and often engaging (though I can see why others might struggle with it, as it's not to everyone's taste) but from a fantasy perspective, it's a bit of a failure. It's not rich enough for magical realism, or elaborate enough for a properly-developed world. It does a lot of things right, but this is definitely an area of struggle.

Quote:Also, for Kayte and/or anyone else who has read Yellowface: would you recommend? I know it's v diff in genre, but which did you prefer, Babel or that? (Would I like it? xD)

I want you to read this just to get your feedback as someone who is a Writer instead of just a writer like meeee <3 Can I sell you with a first-person, morally-gray-at-best narrator?

RE: Babel: An Arcane History by R.F. Kuang - Sisse Thompsett - August 30, 2023

Update:

Book4 spoiler

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Guess that's all it took to get me invested.

RE: Babel: An Arcane History by R.F. Kuang - Sisse Thompsett - August 31, 2023

Being annoying and putting in comments piecemeal or I'll forget them.

Spoiler for Interlude 2

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RE: Babel: An Arcane History by R.F. Kuang - Aldous Crouch - August 31, 2023

(August 31, 2023 – 2:11 PM)Sisse Thompsett Wrote: Being annoying and putting in comments piecemeal or I'll forget them.

Spoiler for Interlude 2

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I was convinced when I realized it was Lettie's POV that I would not be sympathetic to her, but DAMN. Also "Her Remi nodding along." Really speaking to the complexity of devisions behind actions, ingrained biases, and the option for tnnel vision that comes along with each cause.

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RE: Babel: An Arcane History by R.F. Kuang - Sisse Thompsett - August 31, 2023

Aldous Crouch

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